Quest For Information

Discussion about Datsun 1500, 1600, and 2000 race cars.

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DatsunBucky
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:05 pm
Location: Taylorsville, UT

Quest For Information

Postby DatsunBucky » Thu Jan 20, 2005 4:36 pm

Hi, all.

Unless you really don't want to reveal it, does anyone have any dyno numbers for 1600 race engines that they'd be willing to share?

The reason behind this is really the new classing for Solo II. The 1600 seems to be now in DP along with the 1.6l and 1.8l Miatae. Doesn't seem equitable. Equal weight cars. One has live axle, one has IRS. One has 40-year old pushrod technology with non-crossflow heads, the other modern DOHC with crossflow heads. Steering differences. Suspension differences. Just doesn't seem fair.

I looked through the rules, and I can't find any reference to weights in the 2005 Rules (PDF version). Is the formula still 1.05lbs/cc like it was last year?

Maybe I'm getting all worked up over nothing, but in Solo II it seems like we're being classed right out of contention.

Oh, while I'm at it, does open-heart surgery automatically preclude one from participating in SCCA Production racing? Or is it up to one's own physician? I seem to remember something like that is why Carroll Shelby stopped driving.

Thanks.
Bucky
67.5 1600 project

NomadTrash
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Krum , TX

Postby NomadTrash » Thu Jan 27, 2005 12:56 pm

I think it is the same as for E Prepared. Look on page 180 of the rules.
Andy Cost

1968 Datsun Roadster "Bucephalus"
E-Mod 68

Bolt on modification? I used some bolts.

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DatsunBucky
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2003 9:05 pm
Location: Taylorsville, UT

Postby DatsunBucky » Thu Jan 27, 2005 7:06 pm

Thanks, NT.

I saw that before, but since there was nothing listed for DP, then I didn't want to assume. You know what SCCA says about if it doesn't say you can...

But, since I'm going to be over the 1595 lb weight anyway, I might as well use wider than 7" wheels since the penalty won't be adding more weight to the car, just moving the minimum closer to what I'll actually be.

Hmm. Maybe some 4-throttle-body fuel injection...:wink:
Bucky
67.5 1600 project

Gary Boone
Posts: 47
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:03 am
Location: Cheyenne, Wyoming

Postby Gary Boone » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:47 pm

There's an echo in this post :P


Quote from original post "Just doesn't seem fair.

Maybe I'm getting all worked up over nothing, but in Solo II it seems like we're being classed right out of contention."

Ditto for CSP. SEB is deaf too.

Bill Wessel
Roadster Fanatic
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:45 am
Location: Madison, WI

Postby Bill Wessel » Wed Feb 02, 2005 8:31 pm

Hey Bucky, Nomad and Gary,

Naturally I'm hesitant to put out figures here from my engines, but I can tell you this.

In SCCA Prod racing the 2L runs in EP with the 1.6 and 1.8L miata's. The 1.6's are the one's to beat.

And my pushrod 1600 runs in GP with some other pushrod 1.6's and then there's the OHC 1.6 of the 510, (also the car to beat).

So if solo has put the 2L and 1.6 roadster in the same class with the miata's...well, you just better get yourself a potent 2L.

If you can achieve >0.1 HP/cc (i.e., >200 HP from the 2L), you're cooking!

Guest

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:03 pm

Let me apologize first for somewhat of a thread hijack.

A couple of you may remember that I was de-prepping my 1600 for a run in H stock. That went okay, but I was expecting a big change from running street tires (abeit Falken Azenis) to running R compounds (Kuhmo V700s), and I did not see it. I'm assuming it had to do with prying the 185-55s onto a 4-1/2" wide stock rim. The sidewalls are pretty triangular. I think it did coincide with the switch back to the stock exhaust manifold (Thanks Russell), so, they may have offset each other.

Anyway, I'm toying with the idea of running STS2. It would allow some mods that I would really like to do (panhard, comp springs). But like the prepared guys, I'm playing with the Miatae, CRXs, and MR2s. Unlike the prepared class though, I think I'd be able to keep the slight weight advantage the Roadster has over those. Since there's no minimum weight and there's not much in the rules that would allow you to lighten the car significantly.

Does it seem like the SCCA favors certain manufacturers? In solo, the Miata won nationals in CS,CSP,DP (more). And next year, they might have a shot at BS. You can argue that they've given G stock to the Mini where it was already running well, but not quite winning, by allowing the '05 with the LSD without changing classes.

Anyway, any thoughts on STS2?
Thanks,
Steve

Ponder
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 11:47 am
Location: Southern Indiana

Postby Ponder » Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:06 pm

I don't know if it'll matter since I post here so seldomly, but, the above post was mine.

S.
I drank what? - Socrates

NomadTrash
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Krum , TX

Postby NomadTrash » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:02 am

I think the new rules are going in the right direction. You will have a much better chance beating a miata in DP than you will beating John Thomas in EP. He won nationals 12 years in a row and on many occasions he was faster than the modified cars. The rules for prepared have always allowed swapping motors between years and models of the car. The difference has been the weight formula. My opinion is that you should either build a 200 HP U20 in a 2000 pound car or build a 160 hp R16 in a 1600 pound car. I think you will go much faster in the 1600 pound car even with the lower HP numbers. Bear in mind that the rules are meant to put fully prepared cars in clas together. If you don't go all the way then you will not win no matter if you drive a Miata or a Yugo. This means spending some money on dry sump, fuel injection, lightweight wheels and brakes, 3 link rear with coilovers, fiberglass, etc... I have no doubt that an R16 can produce well over 160 HP and probably 200 HP and compete with the Miatas.

Andy
Andy Cost



1968 Datsun Roadster "Bucephalus"

E-Mod 68



Bolt on modification? I used some bolts.



Image

Mike Poorboy
Posts: 302
Joined: Sat May 24, 2003 2:38 pm
Location: Hayden, Idaho

Postby Mike Poorboy » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:07 am

I just noticed the Roadster in DP now . BTW... John Thomas is driving a Z car
again. He came in second place in FP in a borrowed outdated Z thi year. For what I understand his new Z will be well sorted. Its nice having the SCCA rules online now instead of having to buy the book every year to find a few things out .

Mike

NomadTrash
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 9:11 am
Location: Krum , TX

Postby NomadTrash » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:34 am

I'll bet you still have to have the book at entry to the divisionals, National Tour, and National Championships. I usually have a co-driver and we share one book at registration time.
Andy Cost



1968 Datsun Roadster "Bucephalus"

E-Mod 68



Bolt on modification? I used some bolts.



Image

Ponder
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 11:47 am
Location: Southern Indiana

Postby Ponder » Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:47 pm

FWIW, I read on the internet (sccaforums.com) that you do have to have a hard copy of the rule book at the events you mentioned.

Bear in mind that the rules are meant to put fully prepared cars in clas together. If you don't go all the way then you will not win no matter if you drive a Miata or a Yugo.


Not knowing much about this, but plunging on anyway, which is the better car: a fully prepped Miata or a fully prepped Roadster? I suppose suspension-wise and chassis-wise, the fully prepped Roadster would be comparable. But could the engine be made comparable. If the 1600 can be made to produce 160HP within the rules, should the Miata's engine be able to be made to exceed that just due to the 30 years' difference in technologies?

The solo rule generally favor the newer cars. This is understandable, I suppose, due to the support the organization gets from manufacturers. At the same time, it makes concessions for certain dinosaurs. ES for the MR2s that are out of production. FS, ESP, CP for the pony cars more than half of which are out of production.

I think the people that build up Roadsters, 914s, Sprites, etc embody something that fits in very well with the SCCA. I'm not sure what to call it. I think the SCCA should make a home in Solo for these kind of cars. But, I could be biased because the Roadster would be just about the cream of that crop.

Sorry for the ramble,
Steve
I drank what? - Socrates


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