Brake Pads

Discussion about Datsun 1500, 1600, and 2000 race cars.

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Oilleak
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Brake Pads

Postby Oilleak » Sat Oct 04, 2003 11:41 am

Does anyone know the size / style of the brake pads for the stock caliper. I'm looking at the Hawk app chart and they look like HB104's which are listed as the same as Performance Frictions PF757 pad. Anyone know what one of the high performance brake manufacturers call the pads for the stock caliper so I can cross refference it?
Brian Hollands
69 2000
Tampa, FL

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Postby Chris Coker » Sat Oct 04, 2003 12:58 pm

It is definitely not the HB104 pad. That is for a Wilwood Dynalite Single (or equivalent) caliper. The pad dimensions are not quite the same, and that pad does not have the t-slot groove in the back. KPF-23A is the correct part number for the KFP Carbon/Kevlar pads for the roadster.

Here's a few other parts numbers from other manufaturers. I haven't checked these personally, though.

Porterfield R-4 compound DD705
Repco 17 20052-M
Carbotech CT23B
Performance Friction 757 80124? Dunlop (Jaguar 1.98 x 2.39"; 12 mm thick)
Chris C.

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Postby Oilleak » Sat Oct 04, 2003 1:04 pm

Chris,
Perfect, thanks.
Brian Hollands
69 2000
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Brake pads

Postby SLOroadster » Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:06 pm

Try porterfield. I know they have a set of front pads that will fit.

Will
Porsches are yummy!

Ponder
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Postby Ponder » Mon Nov 17, 2003 4:30 pm

Chris,

Do the Kevlar Pads take a while to warms up? In the early days of race application of carbon pads, I read that you had to be very careful until they were warmed up. After they were warm, they were great.

From an autocross perspective, some finite warm up time where the pad's performance is less than a standard might not be beneficial. You sit on the grid a while, the brakes cool off and they don't get up to operating temperature until halfway around the course. I'm really speaking out of ignorance and inexperience here. I don't really know if this is an issue anymore.

Steve
I drank what? - Socrates

Chris Coker
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Postby Chris Coker » Mon Nov 17, 2003 7:12 pm

The carbon/kevlar pads I'm currently using don't really take much to warm them up, and they're a pretty hard compound. A soft compound might do better.

The tradeoffs:
1) They generate a LOT of brake dust
2) They have to be properly heat cycled the first time out on the track. The pads aren't much good until they're properly broken in, which for me is about 7 careful laps around the track at Waterford.

I'd probably talk to a technical guy at KFP before I attempted to use them for anything but road racing, just to be sure.
Chris C.

Gary Boone
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Postby Gary Boone » Thu Nov 20, 2003 12:14 pm

I'm planning to have my calipers sleeved this winter and also considering new pads. I'm still using the pads sold by NISMO (Repco Metalmaster IIRC). Are the aforementioned pads much better for autocross application? :?

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 20, 2003 8:14 pm

That's the $64 question - or in the case of the Carbotech's, the $148! question. I've heard good things about them but nothing definitive yet. Are you happy with the Repco's?

Guest

Postby Guest » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:20 pm

I like the Repco pads but I really can't say how they compare with other pads since that's all I've ever used.

I recently read the new Carbotech "Bobcat" pads are great for autocross and street, but not track. I'll call Carbotech to see if they are available for the roadster yet.

Anyone know if a HAWK HP PLUS pad is made for the roadster? What about Ferodo DS2500?
From the Tire Rack:

HAWK HP PLUS - High Performance Street PLUS Race Worthy

Hawk HP Plus Sport/Track disc brake pads are designed for sports cars,
coupes and sedans for sport driving in autocross, Solo II and many "track
day" applications. Additionally, the Hawk Performance HP Plus
Ferro-Carbon compound can take the heat at the track and get you home
safely without having to change your brake pads in and out. This compound was designed for the serious street and autocross enthusiast.

Warning! Due to the dramatic friction levels produced by this product to
achieve "race-level" braking, rotor wear, noise, dust, and pad life may
be affected.

The high friction level of Hawk HP Plus pads will be more responsive than
most standard original brakes and their high resistance to brake fade
makes them a superb upgrade for high performance streetcars used in
competition, for high speed driving or that encounter repetitive heavy
braking.

Hawk HP Plus Features:
Extremely high friction output
Suitable for autocross events
Race worthy for club racing
Elevated temperature resistance

Gary Boone
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Postby Gary Boone » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:26 pm

The last post was mine. The page said I was signed in but I came up as "Guest" anyway for some unkown reason.

Oilleak
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Postby Oilleak » Thu Nov 20, 2003 9:28 pm

Don't know anything about the hawks but the carbotech's can be made. The pattern is a CT23. Bobcat was $124 and Panther was $148. They seemed to think Panther Plus wouldn't be appropriate for a roadster in autocross. Let me know if you get different pricing.
Brian Hollands
69 2000
Tampa, FL

Gary Boone
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Postby Gary Boone » Fri Nov 21, 2003 1:24 pm

Brian, you are correct on the price of $124 for the Bobcat pads. I just talked to Carbotech. I may go with these and also have them reline my shoes with Silver Streak.

According to the Carbotech rep, as heat cycles of the friction material add up, the coefficient of friction of the pad material diminishes, just like tire rubber. Can anyone verify? Since my pads and shoes are from 1988, I should see some improvement.

Guest

Postby Guest » Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:44 am

Guys,

When talking to brake pad/shoe vendors, here's the essential info. Brake pads/shoes have specific numbers to identify them called the FMSI#. They might not list the roadster or even the MKII caliper, but if you give them the FMSI#, they'll know immediately what you want.

The front pads are #D23-702 IM (for integral molded)
The rear shoes are #359

Larry Narcus (Carbotech) was good to work with (talked your ear off, though). I still am using his Kellated Carbon on the rears, they wear great and don't groove like the Green Stuff.

I used to use his Blue compound, but couple of seasons ago switched to KFP Magnum Golds and never looked back. KFPs are cheaper, wear longer (don't crumble), stop better and don't hold near the heat of Larry's pad because they have the thin tin circle backing (like old stock pads), not a 1/4" machined steel plate that Larry uses.

The Silver is their autocross compound.
KFP Magnum Pads (888)289-3025

Bill Wessel
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Postby Bill Wessel » Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:51 am

Oops, forgot to login.

BTW, Repco is now Axxis D52M for the metal masters. Still use these on my street 1600

Bill

Oilleak
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Postby Oilleak » Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:43 pm

Bill,
You are the man! Thanks for that info.
By the way, not worthy of a race report post but I took fastest "other" time (non-porsche non-BMW) at the PCA autocross today. Last one for the year. Now it's time to make the car faster.
Thanks
Brian Hollands
69 2000
Tampa, FL


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